Running church as congregations of the similar (eg. ages and stages…) makes church something we grow out of – not deeper into…
“Relationships formed over a lifetime with people who are just like you is, honestly, a form of self-worship.” Josh Loveless in Relevant Magazine
Discuss…
I think that your hypothesis is true. Unfortunately, I think fear, ignorance, and impaired curiousity are concurrent factors. Is it a coincidence that these factors are among those found at the root of racism?
I think your point important, Maura – fear of difference appears to lie at the root of so much. Yet isn’t rejoicing at difference a delight? Isn’t difference held in unity part of understanding the Trinity, and the very nature of creation? You are quite right IMO.
Nancy, I’m still naive enough to believe that a healthy liturgical life can be there for us at every age and stage of our journey. But I know that I’m often a minority voice and perspective. I fear that as we try to present the “gospel” in a stratified way, as is becoming increasingly popular, we are actually often denying what we say by what we do – we say that we are all equal and united around God’s single table… And it doesn’t surprise me that numbers keep dropping as our actions drown out our words.
It is fascinating, isn’t it, how few have contributed to this discussion – it’s just not one most communities risk having…
Thanks for the link to Josh Loveless’ article. Very thought provoking and challenging. The Life of Brian clip is so relevant – an ironic comment on the individual ‘pick and mix’ culture. So how can the church be fully 5-generational?
I agree. As a member of an inner-city bi-cultural parish which has transitioned from all-white middle class, where we now have 80% who are Hispanic, I have found the presence of people who are from a different culture enriching and challenging to my assumptions about how faith is lived and what is important in life. This is a gift from the Holy Spirit, who has led the immigrants to our parish… and has called the rest of us to stretch and grow. Unfortunately, in response to this, many have left rather than accept the challenge to love those who are not like them.
Thanks people! I think the comparison with Paul’s image of the body helps. Some congregations appear to pursue an approach of filling the pews with, say, “hands”. The service is just not geared to feet, or eyes, or mouths,… Some people I know say they want children at services, what they really want is miniature adults who will be there to continue this institution, wheel them to the altar rails, and contribute to the plate when older, and maintain the lovely building. Children know if they are there for us, or we are there for them. The diversity of ages, cultures, opinions, stages of faith, can be straining – but IMO it expresses the gospel and lives out the life that Jesus lived, especially at his meals (read “eucharist”). More thoughts? [Great cartoon, Paul – might re-use that here some time; WordPress put it into spam, I get so much now, lucky I spotted it]
I think the article touches on many good points as does the video…classic.
Personally, I think there needs to be a 2 way conversation…or dare I say 5 way? Many have become attached to the “way” we do things (that works from all sides) instead of “why” we do things. Or better yet, for “whom” we do things. Remember it’s not about us, but about Jesus. When He really is the center at an organized church, the rest takes care of itself.
Unfortunately, many see church as a means of manipulating what we want from followers. We equate following a church with following Jesus and they are not the same. That said one can not truly follow Jesus without caring for His Church (the body).
We tend to get focused on having all the answers and like hanging around people who share those answers. I think David Hayward (nakedpastor) has a great cartoon which reflects what the church needs more of:
http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/5681
I love the diversity, that’s what makes it so rich. Unfortunately it is very difficult to find others who are as comfortable with it. If you are not like them then they are not sure what to do with you. Open, honest, and real is what I am looking for…
Needless to say I have a lot of thoughts on this topic as I reflect back on my own spiritual journey. Hope what I have said makes at least some sense 😉
Grace & Peace
My 86 year old mother in law came to live near us recently and loves the fact that the service – and our church – that we attend is made up of little children, the elderly, young couples, some teens. And we are a diverse mix.
And it’s 8:00 in the morning. But…we downsized from 3 to 2 services and if we hadn’t done that the early service would be what she calls “old people” – which would be the opposite of what she likes so much now.
“Running church as congregations of the similar (eg. ages and stages…) makes church something we grow out of” Agreed. We are one in Christ, and yet, we are never as unique as when we fulfilling God’s call.
Yes, we all are different and we all need each other in our everyday life. Just like in the church, the apostle Paul wrote, we’re all part of one body, with different gifts and talents, to build each other, to further HIS kingdom. I guess my question would be, what are we -Christians- doing to impact the world for JESUSCHRIST? Are we reaching out for the lost souls? are we encouraging our brothers & sisters in CHRIST? are we passionate about GOD?…
First, as God has a sense of humour, my daughter is a chorister. My role in the Cathedral is chorister parent, difficult to expand on that role with years of tradition. They have only allowed girls anyways in the last 10 years (suppresses cries of patriarchy).
The evangelical church, the local one, loved having my children, invited my husband to weekends away, bible studies, and I was left to see if I could fit into some sort of rota. I don’t
I praise and worship God 24/7 do I need a church?
I need fellowship I certainly do not want the politics. Would Christ recognize the institution that carries His Name?
But a church cannot target young people without their mothers feeling welcome. My daughters last year as a chorister, where will God take her feet?